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Post by notgoodenough on Apr 20, 2019 19:10:39 GMT
Firstly apologies if this gets rambling. It's a complex and emotive subject.
I am 41 years old and have been out since i was 18 (having quite happily accepted I was gay aged 16/17). Sadly over the past 22-23 years I have grown to hate being gay and generally feel I would be better of dead. The reason for this is not because of that often promoted notion that straight society wont accept us or because I have any sort of internalised homophobia. It is because gay men have made it clear I am repulsively ugly worthless hated and not good enough to be accepted. I have had years of guys making it clear I am too ugly, too much of a failure and am now too fucked up to be good enough (it doesnt seem to matter that they have played a huge part in messing my head up in such a way).
I didnt even kiss a man til I was 20, I had to pay for some of my first sexual encounters, and after that discovered saunas. Alongside that I also realised I could not afford to be at all fussy if I wanted anything to happen. As i got older it got even more difficult. Certainly trips to the sauna these days often lead to nothing. I have only ever had a handful of dates (using the term quite loosely) and all of those were in my 20s. The hope of meeting anyone for any sort of mutual attraction seems pretty much zero, on apps guys I am interested in not just sexually but socially too wont even speak. I gave up on the gay scene over 10 years ago, I got sick of feeling at best invisible, or sometimes just completely unwelcome (one one occasion when out with someone I presumed to be a friend I was physically pushed out of a group of people chatting and nobody batted an eyelid)
All this when closeted men who are too ashamed/scared to admit who they are and are cheating on unsuspecting wives and girlfriends are so readily accepted, desired (almost fetishised) and made to feel loved and rewarded by gay men, in a way which i never have been. Not to mention the guy who abused me when we were kids who has spent most of his adult life in 2 long term gay relationships. How am I not supposed to to get such a strong overwhelming message that I should just crawl int a corner and die?
Whilst gay support groups and media readily offer support and a voice to the popular "gays=good/homophobic straights=bad" narrative, as well as those guys who live a lie, I have found it absolutely impossible to find any way of accessing any sort of support or trying to reach a wider audience to maybe help others in a similar situation (I am not so foolish as to think i am totally unique), how is this acceptable. Hell a guy I got talking to via an app on my phone last year, who came out later in life after helping to run gay conversion therapy courses made the national news with his story everyone thinking it was so awful he had ended up suicidal.
I have been open and honest and have been made to feel suicidal and that apparently is absolutely fine and it is all my own fault and nobody gives a toss and I am being made to feel it is my fault and trying to speak out about it I am just constantly told it is even more reason to hate me and that I will always be single (hell even my best friend has told me I am too fucked up for a regular sex life let alone a relationship)
Why is it that people such as me are completly sidelined? I really do feel that coming out and accepting who I was when I was younger was such a huge mistake and that I should have lived a lie, found some unfortunate woman to have a relationship with and cheat on her with men behind her back so that maybe I could have the kind of acceptance those men seem to find.
Instead I have found myself wishing I could somehow summon the courage to forget the short term effect on my immediate family and end it all. But like I have fucked up the rest of my life i would probably make a mess of that too.
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Post by Rasher on Apr 21, 2019 21:39:19 GMT
Hey notgoodenough!!
First, welcome to OutLife's forums. We're glad you're here. We're fairly new but have built up a small community of people already.
Second, thank you very much for sharing your story with us. Sometimes just writing things down, even if it's a bit of a ramble, can be good for your head. And it's also nice to know that there's people on here who want to hear it.
Third, you are correct in saying you are not unique in feeling like this. It's unbelievable common and I hope others who are feeling the same can share their journeys with you too. I think this is an issue that we in our community are not addressing. It's not acceptable for anyone to feel isolated in our community. We've gone through major pains to get to where we are. It's time we started addressing this issue.
I hear that you are feeling like ending it all is an option for you. This is something I think you need to talk to someone about. Even if they just listen to you. Do you have any close friends or family that you could talk with bout how you are feeling? If not I highly recommend that you give LGBT Switchboard a call. We closely work with them and they are amazing and great listeners. So when you're feeling like this it might be best to give them a call on 0300 330 0630 or if you'd prefer to email them on chris@switchboard.lgbt.
Have you ever looked into counselling or using a life coach? This is something that might help you figure some things out and work towards setting some achievable goals for yourself. About 12 years ago I used a life coach, she helped me tackle some issue that was going on in my head and then let me figure out some workable goals for myself. It was wonderful. There's lots of LGBT counselling and life coaching services out there. If this is something you think could work for you let us know and we can find you a service that meets your needs.
I'm sure you already tried this but are there any support groups/social groups you can go to? Where are you based? We have good insight into what's available around the country.
And finally, as a gay man myself, I fully understand what you are going through. The need to connect with others is vital. Even the most introverted of us needs a human connection with someone else. There's no need for you to be feeling like this. I want to make sure we can help you as much as possible so please continue to post and keep us updated and let's figure this out together.
IH - OutLife
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Post by notgoodenough on Apr 21, 2019 22:26:20 GMT
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
With regards talking to someone. I dont have any family I can talk to about this really, friends to some extent but I have realised that it can drive people away or put strains on the few friendships I do have (It has certainly created an uncomfortable distance with my best friend).
I have not considered LGBT Switchboard for some time. I may have tried them once many years ago but due to my location (more west midlands area) they are less on my radar.
Counselling; I have a long history of depression and mental health issues. I have seen various counsellors and therapists over the years. And whilst I can let off steam about this none have had any real insight into gay life. Sadly being unemployed means I don't have the finances to splash out on private therapists, I have had to take what the NHS have offered (and have now exhausted all avenues with that). And no therapist or counsellor can stop gay men hating me and refusing to have anything to do with me or making it clear i am reuplulsively ugly.
(I will refrain from saying what I think of Life Coaches, based on my experiences of one and also researching them many years ago, needless to say if I cant afford private therapy I certainly cant afford their fees)
Support and social groups. Locally there is very little. I used to go to a Gay mens group at my Local THT many years ago but the guy who ran it ended up telling me i was more difficut to deal with and had worse social skills than another guy who went with Downs Syndrome (I feel unomfortable even repeating this as I dont feel they should have been judged in that way either, but the fact the guy was making that judgement against both of us made me run a mile and even though he has moved to pastures new it made me never want to return).
I have become involved with a social group which is based on a general hobby of mine, and whilst it is the only gay environment where I havent been made to feel completely unwelcome, it has also reaffirmed some of the negative experiences I have had with regards to being gay and at times I feel like all the time and amount of travel it requires of me is too much and not worth it. Sadly there are no other suitable groups I feel able to attend, where it doesnt matter if nobody speaks. I find social interaction difficult at the best of times but when i know guys generally will shun me and not speak.
Sadly I just feel there is no point trying anymore. 22 years is a very long time, well over half my lifetime and I now feel so damaged I am rotten to the core and given I was clearly so utterly repulsively ugyly on the outside to start with there just seems so very little point.
There is no way the gay scene/media will every try and point out its own failings, they want to stick to the propoganda that being gay and gay men are wonderful.
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Post by simonjr on Apr 25, 2019 9:49:54 GMT
Hi Notgoodenough! I have read and noted all that you have said.
Many of us have things to deal with that are hard to deal with. I think there are good gay communities and bad gay communities just like all other human communities. When I was young l I too found it hard to find that 'mutual attraction' thing and like you, ended up fed up with it all. So I sunk myself into my religion instead - ended up getting married and having children but then had a complete breakdown 20 years ago from which I never fully recovered. I continue to live with severe fatigue and pain.
For me it was important to be honest even if it was at a price. I wasn't one of those cheating married men you mentioned - in fact I never had a relationship with a guy until I was 48, 3 years after separation from my wife. I also told my wife about my homosexual feelings before we married because I believe in honesty being the best policy.
I suppose I agree with you that the world of relationships can be a nightmare for many of us for all sorts of reasons. I have discovered late in life (I'm 62) that I have high levels of autism traits and it explains some of the problems I have had with relationships. But even without that, on the outside of the gay-world looking in, I have perceived high levels of self indulgence there. Shallowness and superficialities that make me cringe. A high level of dependance on drugs and alcohol, and a profound disregard for their health in all ways! However, if that's how some people want to be, I guess who am I to judge them. At best, my judgement can only lead to me saying 'it's not for me'. Perhaps if I were a better person I would try and save them from themselves, I don't know.
But then that does leave the question how shall I live my life as a gay man? The answer is 'however I want to live, with all due consideration to my limitations'. I would stress that in order to get on with people you do have to play by the rules of social norms. It is just a fact of life. Even then, if the others don't play fair then you have a problem. If gay men have spoken to you in the way that you have reported, I would say you are better off without them! They clearly haven't played to the rules. I would find people to be with who are kind no matter what their sexual identity, and indeed, no matter what their age! I have done this a few times in my life. I have found myself in situations where I have had to walk away from the group of 'friends' that really were toxic and start afresh. It is hard to do but worth it if you can.
I found that whenever I was close to suicide, it was always the thought that 'why let the bastards grind you down?' that turned me around. 'I am not going to let them win!' I am alive, here, queer, and as much right as anyone to live life and enjoy what I can of it. I don't know if you are ugly as you say or if it is just how you feel about yourself, but it doesn't matter. You have a right to life.
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Post by notgoodenough on Apr 30, 2019 0:48:33 GMT
Hi Simonjr
I think the fact you were married (to a woman) then seperated 17 years ago and got into a relationship only 3 years later sort of reaffirms my point. Guys who do that are accepted far more readily. 3 years is nothing compared to what I have experienced.
as for why let the bastards grind me down?
Becuause they are happy to acccept you but make it clear i am not good enough
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Post by notgoodenough on May 2, 2019 15:20:36 GMT
Just an update with regards switchboard.
I ended up contacting them via their live chat (they seem to be busy at the times it is convenient for me to actually have the privacy to speak on the telephone). Sadly it was not very helpful, in fact in some ways it seemed to do more harm than good. Especially there was a lot of that "you have to like yourself if you want other people to like you" kind of cliche which always comes across as trying to tell me it is my fault somehow.
I really am reaching breaking point now.
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Post by Piltover on May 2, 2019 15:58:02 GMT
Hi there notgoodenough, I'm sorry that you found that was your experience with Switchboard. Luckily there are more places out there you can go to find support and hopefully one of them will be able to direct you to somewhere that you find more helpful: - MindOut is an LGBTQ+ specific mental health charity that also offers a support line (01273 234 839). Maybe you could call them as well? I know you've had bad experiences in the past re mental health interventions and people not understanding gay life, but hopefully this will be better. - It also sounds like in terms of face-to-face support like an LGBTQ+ counsellor or psychotherapist could help. You mention you're in the Midlands, why not try contacting Birmingham LGBT? It offers LGBT counselling and could be a better-suited environment to work through some of what you'r feeling. blgbt.org/counselling-and-psychotherapy/I hope one of the above two proves more fruitful. Take care of yourself  Justin |
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Post by notgoodenough on May 2, 2019 23:00:54 GMT
Thank you for the MindOut contact (for some reason I thought they were only for people in the Brighton area).
With regards Birmingham LGBT, I have contacted them in the past and sadly their counselling and therapy serves are only for those who live in the Birmingham area. Thank you however for the suggestion of that too.
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Post by debbiedowner99 on May 9, 2019 18:53:18 GMT
Hey notgoodenough.
I'm Debbie. I can't really say that I know what you're going through. I can't. But I just hope that you can find a way forward. I started counselling recently and it helped me so much. It changed my life. But I understand that I might have just been lucky to find a good fit the first time around.
I wish you the best of luck and keep moving forward.
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Post by notgoodenough on May 23, 2019 23:56:10 GMT
Sadly I think there is no way forward for me. 23 years is a long time and the extent to which I have been made to feel repuslively ugly worthless and hated by gay men (especially those who identify more as "bears") is so strong that there are way too many people who have made it clear I am unwelcome so the exceptions to the rule are so few and far between, and if they are there they are generally good enough and accepted and surrounded and welcomed by all those who make it clear I should be hated and shunned.
I just wish I could fall asleep and never wake up. Nobody really gives a shit about me, particularly those who could be of any real help, and I need soooo much fucking support and help to undo the mess being hated and not good enough to be accepted has done in destroying what little self belief I had to start with. I cant magic any of this from inside me whilst I am still constantly not good enough and alone. Years of therapy made me realise that talking to a therapist cant stop gay men looking down their noses at me and snubbing me whist they all happily welcome everyone else.
Why do organisations like this still only ever promote the idea that being gay and out is wonderful and its straight peoples unacceptance is the only problem..... when are you going to start calling out gay people making some of us feel like taking our own lives is the only way to end the pain of having the misfortune to be born cearly so repulsively ugly it makes guys think we are so deserving of hate, much more so than liars cheats and bullies?
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